In this episode of The EX Conversation, Kaz Hassan sits down with internal communications consultant, author, and researcher Jenni Field to explore a question many organizations continue to wrestle with: is employee engagement still the right measure of organizational health?
Drawing on years of research, consulting experience, and conversations with leaders across industries, Jenni challenges some of the assumptions behind engagement metrics and asks whether our measures of success have kept pace with the realities of modern work. Together, they discuss the difference between engagement and impact, the limits of benchmarking, and what organizations should be paying attention to instead.
If you're responsible for employee experience, internal communications, culture, or digital workplace strategy, this episode offers a thoughtful perspective on a topic that continues to shape leadership decisions. For leaders trying to prove value, build high-performing teams, or move beyond survey scores, you'll find plenty of practical questions to take back to your own organization.
🎧 Enjoy the episode and thanks for listening.
Episode timeline
00:00 – 02:35 | Birthday introductions and workplace intuition
Kaz introduces the episode and welcomes fellow communicator and "Cancerian" Jenni Field for a conversation about employee engagement and measurement.
02:35 – 07:51 | Jenni's career journey into internal communications
Jenni shares her path from marketing and PR into internal communications, building functions across multiple industries before launching her consultancy, Redefining Communications.
07:51 – 12:37 | Why research matters
A discussion about Jenni's research projects, curiosity about workplace behaviour, and the unanswered questions she sees across employee experience and organizational culture.
12:37 – 13:12 | The debate begins: Is employee engagement the right measure?
Jenni introduces her central argument and explains why she believes organizations should rethink their reliance on engagement scores.
13:12 – 16:08 | Why engagement scores may no longer reflect modern work
The pair explore how attitudes toward work have changed since COVID and whether traditional engagement measures have kept up.
16:08 – 18:36 | Engagement with work vs. engagement with the organization
Jenni explains why these are often treated as the same thing in surveys, despite being fundamentally different experiences.
18:36 – 20:21 | The limitations of eNPS and organizational benchmarking
A look at employee Net Promoter Scores, what these metrics really tell leaders, and why comparisons can be misleading.
20:21 – 23:40 | Measuring impact instead of engagement
Using examples from communication and business performance, Kaz and Jenni discuss alternative ways of demonstrating value.
23:40 – 27:13 | The problem with chasing a single number
The conversation explores why organizations are often drawn to universal metrics and what gets overlooked when they focus too heavily on them.
27:13 – 31:11 | What high-performing teams actually look like
Jenni shares the behaviors, conditions, and outcomes she would look for when assessing team effectiveness and employee experience.
31:11 – 34:30 | Career advice: getting comfortable with uncertainty
Jenni reflects on the biggest lesson from her career and why thriving in ambiguity is an essential leadership skill.
34:30 – 35:43 | Self-awareness as an overlooked professional skill
A conversation about understanding yourself, your impact on others, and why personal development matters in communications and EX roles.
35:43 – 36:38 | EX Room 101: putting employee engagement in the bin
Jenni nominates employee engagement for Room 101 and explains why she believes the concept needs rethinking.
36:38 – 38:23 | The thing Jenni was most wrong about
Jenni reflects on a belief she once held about leadership and relationships at work—and how experience changed her perspective.
38:23 – 38:50 | A question for the next guest
Jenni leaves a question for a future episode: which business leader do you most admire, and why?
About The EX Conversation
The EX Conversation is a podcast series from Unily that brings together employee experience, internal communications, and digital workplace leaders from across industries.
Each episode features an open, practical conversation with people on the frontlines of EX: sharing what’s working, what’s hard, and how they’re navigating complexity in real time. No hype. No scripts. Just honest perspectives and hard-won insight to help EX leaders learn from each other and move the workplace forward.